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> RH gearchange bushes
webmonster
post 11 Mar 2013, 02:12
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There is increasing play in several places in the linkages and bushes and I suspect I am not engaging 1st or 3rd gear completely.

...so I want to start with re-bushing the cross-shaft (extension) and relay lever.

Looks like 2 bushes for each, but the diagram in the workshop manual misses some bits out and I don't have any diagrams in my incomplete parts manuals.

Howard might be able to help me here (he with better parts manuals) (IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
cross shaft extension bushes might be ACC8409
relay lever bushes might be ACB5284

No idea if the part #'s have been superceeded.
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webmonster
post 24 Mar 2013, 08:50
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Righto, linkages and relay are now out and I'll take pics of them soon.
There is no one place where I can say 'aha - there is lots of wear right there'; there is a bit here, a bit there... as you might expect in a 50 year old car. I had some work done 10-15 years ago, so time to freshen things up.

Here is a photo of the gearbox crossmember taken from the passenger-side of the car:
Attached File  DSCF8728sm.jpg ( 82.13K ) Number of downloads: 0

Unless they came out of the factory with this rakish angle I'd say it has been bent back by driving over rough ground or similar.
This would explain the protective piece of sheet metal under the gear lever and the absence of the rear gearbox/engine steady (for fore and aft movement).
This angle also means the right-angled relay lever is on the same angle too.
Should I try and straighten this lot back out again??

I was surprised to find that there is only one 'hook and eye' joint here - from gearlever to relay. There are two ball joints. Phooar! Morris Motors went OTT (IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Is it worth trying to change this hook and eye for a ball-joint somehow? There is some play at this point.

I am hoping that the rods are not bent, given the other bent bits.
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Danny
post 24 Mar 2013, 11:58
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There seems to be three rods with the bent round hook ends, I'd wager that this is where the lions share of the lost motion is. They don't need to be ball joints necessarily, female rod ends are good, 5/16th UNF probably. they can have less clearance issues than balljoints just depends on what's easily available.
Also, do the levers on the G/box have splines or cotter pins? If the latter then check them out carefuly for lost motion. Those rubber bushes in the crossshaft would have to be sus too wouldn't they?

Danny
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webmonster
post 25 Mar 2013, 07:33
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QUOTE (Danny @ 25 Mar 2013, 00:58 ) *
There seems to be three rods with the bent round hook ends, I'd wager that this is where the lions share of the lost motion is.

Oh yeah - I'd forgotten the levers on the gearbox itself...
QUOTE
They don't need to be ball joints necessarily, female rod ends are good, 5/16th UNF probably. they can have less clearance issues than balljoints just depends on what's easily available.

male/female rod ends... never seen them before. Thanks for the idea! Not sure how to make 'em fit yet, e.g. could something like this be fitted in the gearbox levers?
QUOTE
Also, do the levers on the G/box have splines or cotter pins? If the latter then check them out carefuly for lost motion.

Sorry to be stupid - which end of the lever do you mean?
QUOTE
Those rubber bushes in the crossshaft would have to be sus too wouldn't they?

It is surprisingly solid at the moment, but I can see that as soon as I undo the fasteners and seperate the joint it will turn into rubber dust...
So yes, new ones will be necessary.
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Danny
post 25 Mar 2013, 10:18
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QUOTE
male/female rod ends... never seen them before. Thanks for the idea! Not sure how to make 'em fit yet, e.g. could something like this be fitted in the gearbox levers?


Attached File  rod_end.jpeg ( 4.21K ) Number of downloads: 0


Something like this. You have to thread the appropriate rod, screw the rod end on using a locknut 'a la balljoint' then clamp it to the appropriate lever with a nice Nyloc nut and bolt. Its best to (if not necessary to) start with new rod stock so as not to ruin your originals should it all go horribly wrong (IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) No more bent over hookey bits and split pins.


QUOTE
Sorry to be stupid - which end of the lever do you mean?


I'm talking about the two levers affixed to the two crossshafts in the box. Where they fit on the cross shaft on early stuff they used cotter pins which can cause problems if allowed to get loose and wear, Later boxes on the 6/90 at least had splined crossshafts and levers which are good.

Danny
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webmonster
post 2 Apr 2013, 08:38
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Starting to get somewhere now.
The balljoints are both in good order.
The hook and eye joints - all 3 hooks have worn down so I'll get these built up to size and made round again. This is easier and quicker than extensively modifying the existing onesor making new ones.
The 'relay' for the shifter(?) lever (the gate between Reverse, 1st/2nd & across to 3/4) has been rebushed and is pretty good - addition of a grease nipple will help take out the small amount of play.
...which leaves...
The cross-shaft that goes through the chassis rail.
There is play in this shaft and it looks like the shaft has worn rather than the bronze bushes. Not sure if I will get the shaft cleaned up and get new bushes (made?) and fitted.
This is the one that operates the selector(?) lever, which potentially leads to 1st and 3rd gear not being completely engaged.
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Danny
post 2 Apr 2013, 11:26
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QUOTE
The hook and eye joints - all 3 hooks have worn down so I'll get these built up to size and made round again. This is easier and quicker than extensively modifying the existing onesor making new ones.


Rubbish! I had never done anything like this before and it only took me three months (IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Danny
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Howard Dent
post 2 Apr 2013, 19:48
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QUOTE (Danny @ 2 Apr 2013, 12:26 ) *
Rubbish! I had never done anything like this before and it only took me three months (IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Danny


Luckily I had a few spare rods, so picked the worst and did this mod a couple of years ago - much better!

Howard.
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webmonster
post 8 Apr 2013, 08:43
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QUOTE (Howard Dent @ 3 Apr 2013, 07:48 ) *
Luckily I had a few spare rods, so picked the worst and did this mod a couple of years ago - much better!

No spare rods for me, so this time I have played it very safe by getting things brazed or built up with weld to minimise slop.

The ball joints are in good condition, so a clean up and some new grease for them, and some new black paint for the rods and relays and stuff.
One modification I've had done is to get a grease nipple installed in the relay shaft to take up a small amount of slack (it was re-bushed last time around):
Attached File  DSCF8746sm.jpg ( 54.38K ) Number of downloads: 0


I was interested to find that the cross-shaft has an indentation milled into it to clear the torsion bar:
Attached File  DSCF8747sm.jpg ( 76.1K ) Number of downloads: 0

Attached File  DSCF8735sm.jpg ( 67.12K ) Number of downloads: 0

This shaft has a bit of wear, but the existing brass bushes do not appear to. Apparently water gets in, causes some corrosion on the shaft but not the brass bushes:
Attached File  DSCF8743sm.jpg ( 79.06K ) Number of downloads: 0

I wonder if I can fit some sort of seal to at least one side of the shaft. Would a felt ring do the trick, or maybe I can find a trunnion seal?

So, although there is some play in this shaft/bushes, I am not sure what to do. Also the bushes are a pain to get out without a pit/lift.
My thoughts are to try it out as is.
I suspect that if new bushes are necessary then new ones will have to be made or modified due to the wear in the shaft.

Here are the ready-to-disintegrate rubber bushes in between the cross shafts before disassembly:
Attached File  DSCF8733sm.jpg ( 110.66K ) Number of downloads: 0

These are very thin and I think I can cut them out of a suitable sheet of rubber.
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webmonster
post 11 Apr 2013, 10:29
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So... the ready-to-disintegrate rubber bushes are one piece units. ACC 8409
Attached File  DSCF8749sm.jpg ( 79.88K ) Number of downloads: 0

Attached File  DSCF8750sm.jpg ( 76.13K ) Number of downloads: 0


I.D. is 8mm
O.D. is 16mm (size of hole it needs to fit)
across the extreme edges is 26mm

Width is 6.5mm (width of the piece of metal it fits through.

Any idea where I could get a couple??
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Danny
post 11 Apr 2013, 12:43
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QUOTE
Any idea where I could get a couple??


You are lucky, these are the very same bush as used on the cross shaft to relay connection on the 6/90 automatic linkage. They are of course readily available from.....darn it, run out of ink!

Da...
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Llansadwrn
post 11 Apr 2013, 15:11
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If you cannot find anything suitable, maybe you could make your own. I'm thinking turning on a small lathe. All you need is to find something solid rubber and cylindrical 1" in diameter as stock material. I' ve seen rubber turned before, so if you know a hobby machinist you could possibly persuade him/her to try this..... a very shallow angle slicing cut trimming off thin ribbons, just using a razor-type cutter that needs to be rehoned razor sharp periodically. The hole can be bored with a drill, with the bushing trapped between two pieces of plywood clamped together fairly hard. Making the first one would take a while, but the subsequent ones would go quickly. What you need is not a perfect bush, or one subject to high stresses or heat, so a little crudity in the manufacture would be acceptable.

Just a thought.
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Danny
post 12 Apr 2013, 00:56
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There are plenty of machinable nylons/poly stock around and I would steer clear of rubber in this instance if possible, and go for a two piece bush. A fellow used to machine up all our 6/90 suspension bushes at one time from a material called MS Nylon which was used for Caterpiller bushes. It was a bit hard really but served the purpose untill moulded stuff became more common.

Danny
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Llansadwrn
post 12 Apr 2013, 01:46
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QUOTE (Danny @ 11 Apr 2013, 18:56 ) *
There are plenty of machinable nylons/poly stock around and I would steer clear of rubber in this instance if possible, and go for a two piece bush. A fellow used to machine up all our 6/90 suspension bushes at one time from a material called MS Nylon which was used for Caterpiller bushes. It was a bit hard really but served the purpose untill moulded stuff became more common.

Danny

I was under the impression it would have to be softer. Remember, before dismissing rubber, that these bushes will be getting on for 60 years old.
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Danny
post 12 Apr 2013, 02:48
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QUOTE
I was under the impression it would have to be softer. Remember, before dismissing rubber, that these bushes will be getting on for 60 years old.


I am a great advocate for good quality rubber bushes in 'flexing' applications such as wishbones and shackles, but in this application I reckon the only reason it was rubber is that it was the only viable (economic) choice at the time. A seventies vehicle would have almost certainly had nylon in a gear linkage like this and today there are better materials available. The joint in question doesn't need to flex, there's enough of that in the set up as it is, just a degree of isolation from metal to metal. A synthetic bush will withstand the ravishes of time and gearbox oil better too!
Having said all this if something can be cobbled up out of rubber easily then I'd do that too if it meant getting the car back in use, I did this for a while with a similar grommet type bush on the 6/90 RH change and finally managed to carve up a couple of Nolathane bushes with a sharp knife which has done the job for donkeys years (IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

Danny
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Llansadwrn
post 12 Apr 2013, 03:41
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QUOTE (Danny @ 11 Apr 2013, 20:48 ) *
I am a great advocate for good quality rubber bushes in 'flexing' applications such as wishbones and shackles, but in this application I reckon the only reason it was rubber is that it was the only viable (economic) choice at the time. A seventies vehicle would have almost certainly had nylon in a gear linkage like this and today there are better materials available. The joint in question doesn't need to flex, there's enough of that in the set up as it is, just a degree of isolation from metal to metal. A synthetic bush will withstand the ravishes of time and gearbox oil better too!
Having said all this if something can be cobbled up out of rubber easily then I'd do that too if it meant getting the car back in use, I did this for a while with a similar grommet type bush on the 6/90 RH change and finally managed to carve up a couple of Nolathane bushes with a sharp knife which has done the job for donkeys years (IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

Danny

In that case you are certainly right. I am a great fan of UHMWP, which is machinable and will last forever in the most trying applications, and can reeadily be bought as offcuts, in this case 1" rod would work, and a person could use a drill and grinder if there was no access to a mini lathe.
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Danny
post 12 Apr 2013, 04:57
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QUOTE
A synthetic bush will withstand the ravishes of time


Can't believe I wote that (IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

Danny
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webmonster
post 12 Apr 2013, 05:48
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Thanks for all your input, Danny and Llansadwrn.

BASiS NZ has something surprisingly similar, but not quite there:
I.D. is 10mm
O.D. is 17mm (size of hole it needs to fit) across the extreme edges is 20mm

Width is 5mm (width of the piece of metal it fits through.

After this discussion I am thinking of making something suitable, but in two halves for each one. I'd probably make them out of Nolathane or a slightly flexible nylon or similar.

Danny - I see from my incomplete parts book that the Isis auto-box cars use this bush too.
Think of the demand from Isis series II, 6/90 and Isis automatic owners! (Howard knows of 4 Isis with Auto gearboxes in the world...) (IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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webmonster
post 13 Apr 2013, 10:39
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QUOTE (Danny @ 12 Apr 2013, 16:57 ) *

(IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Adds some extra interest to the thread... (IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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webmonster
post 13 Apr 2013, 10:46
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Today I found some rubber tube that has exactly the right I.D. and O.D. to fit in the hole so I cut off as close to 9mm x 2 as I could. I think they will compress up. I'll cut some thin flat pieces from a sheet I have here and I will see how this holds up.

I think for the longer term I will look at turning something up, but for now I think this might just work (IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I refitted the rods today (in the wrong order, of course...)
The newly brazed end for one gearbox lever (the thick one - selector lever?) needed a bit of filing to fit - nice tight fit now.
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