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> Chrome work
Martin Hamilton
post 6 Oct 2017, 14:33
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I'm removing the easy-to-remove chrome prior to the body work and re-spray. (see Pictures).
The
  • OXFORD badge from the front of the bonnet (which was glued on presumably because it was broken in half).
  • Main bonnet mascot (with the 1500 on a red disc)
  • TRAVELLER tailgate badge
  • MORRIS tailgate badge
  • Spare wheel compartment handles
  • tailgate handle
  • Rear stop/tail cluster (2)
I wonder if anyone has or has knowledge of the availability of any of these items in good condition.... given that the cost of re-chroming (and repairing the OXFORD badge) is around £600.......

The guy from the re-chrome repeatedly said the originals were cheap castings and high quality couldn't be guaranteed.....

and ps, how do you remove the red 1500 disc from the centre of the top half of the bonnet mascot?


This post has been edited by Martin Hamilton: 6 Oct 2017, 14:35
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Howard Dent
post 14 Oct 2017, 07:40
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QUOTE (Martin Hamilton @ 6 Oct 2017, 15:33 ) *
I'm removing the easy-to-remove chrome prior to the body work and re-spray. (see Pictures).
The
  • OXFORD badge from the front of the bonnet (which was glued on presumably because it was broken in half).
  • Main bonnet mascot (with the 1500 on a red disc)
  • TRAVELLER tailgate badge
  • MORRIS tailgate badge
  • Spare wheel compartment handles
  • tailgate handle
  • Rear stop/tail cluster (2)
I wonder if anyone has or has knowledge of the availability of any of these items in good condition.... given that the cost of re-chroming (and repairing the OXFORD badge) is around £600.......

The guy from the re-chrome repeatedly said the originals were cheap castings and high quality couldn't be guaranteed.....

and ps, how do you remove the red 1500 disc from the centre of the top half of the bonnet mascot?


I'm pretty sure I have some of these parts in new condition - certainly the Traveller script and the Oxford script at least, and I think I have rear lamp surrounds and a tailgate handle - give me the weekend to look!

Howard.
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Martin Hamilton
post 14 Oct 2017, 08:47
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QUOTE (Howard Dent @ 14 Oct 2017, 08:40 ) *
I'm pretty sure I have some of these parts in new condition - certainly the Traveller script and the Oxford script at least, and I think I have rear lamp surrounds and a tailgate handle - give me the weekend to look!

Howard.


That would be brilliant, Howard. Many thanks for looking.
Cheers!
Martin
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wolseley16/60aut...
post 14 Oct 2017, 09:16
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I find it odd that the series V & VI Oxford Travellers had no 'Traveller' script !!!
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Martin Hamilton
post 14 Oct 2017, 09:32
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QUOTE (wolseley16/60auto @ 14 Oct 2017, 10:16 ) *
I find it odd that the series V & VI Oxford Travellers had no 'Traveller' script !!!


Perhaps they thought it would associate the vehicle with "commercial traveller" (a.k.a. salesman)?
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Martin Hamilton
post 17 Oct 2017, 12:13
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QUOTE (Howard Dent @ 14 Oct 2017, 08:40 ) *
I'm pretty sure I have some of these parts in new condition - certainly the Traveller script and the Oxford script at least, and I think I have rear lamp surrounds and a tailgate handle - give me the weekend to look!

Howard.


Hi Howard
I sent you a PM but its not showing up in my sent messages. Let me know if you don't get it and I'll send another

Cheers
Martin
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MYKE
post 17 Oct 2017, 12:48
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QUOTE (Martin Hamilton @ 14 Oct 2017, 10:32 ) *
Perhaps they thought it would associate the vehicle with "commercial traveller" (a.k.a. salesman)?


The original Morris Woody was based on the Oxford and was called the "Traveller's Car. It was originally designed as a specialist vehicle for commercial travellers. Then they produced the smaller Morris Minor version in October '53 and it inherited the name "Traveller".
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Martin Hamilton
post 28 Oct 2017, 12:09
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Massive thanks to Howard Dent, I now have many of the parts I most badly needed in new or nearly new condition.

If anyone out there has any of the following (in very good or better condition) I would gratefully pay good money for them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
  1. Bottom half of the bonnet mascot/handle
  2. OXFORD bonnet badge
  3. MORRIS boot badge
  4. Two spare wheel compartment handles
#1 is the worst and I fear re-chroming my not be entirely successful so this is my real requirement. #2 to #4 are "not too bad" but of course if anyone has better or can point me at......




Cheers!

Martin


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Danny
post 29 Oct 2017, 08:38
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Chrome is no longer a problem...

WATCH THIS

Danny
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Martin Hamilton
post 29 Oct 2017, 09:05
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QUOTE (Danny @ 29 Oct 2017, 09:38 ) *
Chrome is no longer a problem...

WATCH THIS

Danny


That's absolutely amazing Danny and I want some to play with !!

But

It relies on having a (clean, obviously) good-condition, unpitted original.

So assuming it's as good as it looks and as durable as chrome (?) I wonder what process is best to strip back the existing covering, bearing in mind that 3 of the 5 pieces I need sorted are not in the slightest bit flat or smooth and are horribly pitted?

I have a feeling that the re-chroming process might be better at this in the hands of a skilled professional.

Nevertheless I'm now wondering if there's anything on my car that I can paint/chrome. Hmmmmm.

Cheers
Martin
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Danny
post 29 Oct 2017, 09:27
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I don't really know anything about this stuff Martin but, you'd think that if it's a paint then you could fill & sand pitting & what have you.

Danny
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Martin Hamilton
post 29 Oct 2017, 13:58
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QUOTE (Danny @ 29 Oct 2017, 10:27 ) *
I don't really know anything about this stuff Martin but, you'd think that if it's a paint then you could fill & sand pitting & what have you.

Danny


Hiya Danny,

I hope you will forgive me giving the chrome paint a negative review, thanks for the suggestion and this is no reflection ( (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ) on you for pointing it out.


For a flat piece this might work. For the "MORRIS" and "OXFORD" badges there's intricate cross-hatching on the bar between each letter. Sanding wouldn't touch that, but I believe an acid bath would simply melt away the stains and give a good base for chroming.

Since you mentioned this I've done some research to see if brush-on or spray chroming is a practical proposition compared to the estimate for traditional re-chroming I've been quoted of about £30 each for a badge and £50 for the bottom half of the bonnet handle (so about £110 all-in for a pro job).

An online review for the spray version on the Hot Rodders Website is not good "a very expensive product which provides very mediocre results". Its worth noting that the object must first be painted gloss black; chrome sprayed; and spray hardened. Based on many years experience working for an American multinational, regardless of any exchange rates US$ translates to UK£ almost 1:1 by the time the product reaches our shores - so you're looking at £130 to £150; an awful lot of effort; and nasty chemicals for what will likely be a mediocre outcome (my painting and spraying skills are poor to say the least).

The brush-on version is £70 for a 250ml tin. But the objects still need to be cleaned and painted gloss black to start and sprayed/painted with a hardener afterwards. I couldn't find any prices for a paint-on hardener but the spray hardener is the same price as the chrome paint spray. So, say £70 each / £140 for the two plus the black gloss.

The article compains bitterly that the chrome aerosol supplied is different from the one shown in their video. The spray nozzle is a standard one causing spurts; splatter and drips, plus it doesn't include the hardener (as shown in the video). Given the complaints about the spray version, I've no reason to suspect the brush-on version will not be without drawbacks of a similr nature.

I think the process could work very well in a professional paint company who have the necessary equipment to clean the piece first, spray black and so on using professional quality kit (but by the time they have invested in the processes I can see it may well be at least as expensive as the traditional method). But for the home-restorer I can't see it working in either cost or quality.

So what looked to me (and you) like an amazing and easy product - it did, it looked just like using Hammerite!!! - turns out to be (in my view) a triumph of marketing over reality - unlike most countries, there seems to be no consumer protection law in the US that prevents what looks to me like extremely misleading marketing and trading.

The big advantage of "standard chrome plating" is that I drop the bits off at the plater and a few weeks later I collect brand-new looking ones. Given the high cost of experimentation I think I'll stick with that - but it was a good suggestion based on what the video appeared to show.

>>EDIT>> I suppose this might work Frost Home Electroplating Review at approx £70, but I remain unconvinced that the home restorer can match the quality of finish from a professional.

Cheers!
Martin

This post has been edited by Martin Hamilton: 29 Oct 2017, 14:11
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Martin Hamilton
post 9 Jan 2018, 14:03
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I've gotten my chrome back from the platers, but the quality of the job on the bonnet handle lower piece is not what I was expecting. It was pitted (see pic of the "before" state) but my friend (with 30 years in the resto trade) says he has seen crap go into the company he recommended me, and nearly new / new come back. Its in the creases along both sides (pics below) and apparently this company normally fills in the pits with bronze before polishing and plating.

Does anyone have a view on this - should I expect better?

Cheers
Martin

This post has been edited by Martin Hamilton: 9 Jan 2018, 14:03
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Fred Oldham
post 9 Jan 2018, 14:14
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They appear to have made no attempt to either fill or grind out the pit marks. I would call the results rubbish. You could have fettled up the pitted area yourself with a Dremel and achieved a better starting point that they did. Kick up a stink and demand they try again. Assure them that no one on this forum will be giving them any business.
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Martin Hamilton
post 9 Jan 2018, 14:30
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QUOTE (Fred Oldham @ 9 Jan 2018, 14:14 ) *
They appear to have made no attempt to either fill or grind out the pit marks. I would call the results rubbish. You could have fettled up the pitted area yourself with a Dremel and achieved a better starting point that they did. Kick up a stink and demand they try again. Assure them that no one on this forum will be giving them any business.


Yes, that's what I thought, but confirmation is always good, Fred.

I've sent the the same pics as I posted here and extra-politely asked "if you feel this is a the best that can be done here, especially on the base piece?". I need to leave some room for manoeuvre, if I go in at "defcon 3" straight off then there's no-where else to go. If I get the brush off then they'll get both barrels!
Cheers!
Martin
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Danny
post 9 Jan 2018, 16:00
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Martin, is the brush off any worse than the brush on?

Danny
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Martin Hamilton
post 9 Jan 2018, 17:15
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QUOTE (Danny @ 9 Jan 2018, 16:00 ) *
Martin, is the brush off any worse than the brush on?

Danny


Sorry Danny, not with you there, mate.
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webmonster
post 12 Jan 2018, 10:05
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I am amazed that they have managed to chrome the Mazak pieces at all!
I thought it was impossible.
I agree that it looks not as nice having the pitting in the tight edges. If their process leaves these artifacts then I think they needed to tell you this.

When you next communicate with the company you could tell them that this is not the finish you expected and what can you and they do next?
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Martin Hamilton
post 12 Jan 2018, 10:53
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QUOTE (webmonster @ 12 Jan 2018, 10:05 ) *
I am amazed that they have managed to chrome the Mazak pieces at all!
I thought it was impossible.
I agree that it looks not as nice having the pitting in the tight edges. If their process leaves these artifacts then I think they needed to tell you this.

When you next communicate with the company you could tell them that this is not the finish you expected and what can you and they do next?


Hiya
They warned me before I sent the pieces that cheap castings made it difficult to get the kind of finish I might want (at the time I knew nothing about Mazak, but this is the material they were talking about).

A long chat with Robert Francis in the 6/80-MO-MCOC forum/Facebook told me in enormous detail (excellent article, I'll see if I can manage to cross post to "our" facebook page) just how difficult is is to re-chrome Mazak and while my friend (the restorer) said most pieces came back from the plater " like new" it turns out most / all of those pieces were not Mazak.

So I had a long, very civil and very informative chat with the Electroplating company about techniques and possibilities during which I explained that the finish was not what I had hoped for, but in the context of understanding how difficult it is working with Mazak.

The upshot is that they asked me to send back anything that had not met my hopes (I sent only the bottom half of the bonnet handle). I had another conversation yesterday - they say its not possible to do anything about the pitting in the creases*, but they do believe they might improve on the flat surfaces, where a few "pimples" were still present.

* it was explained that the methods of repair for a metal casting would involve using brass as a filler, but the temperatures for this would melt or deform Mazak. Other methods require the Mazak to be heated to a constant temperature while an "metalflake solder-like" material is run along the pitting, but as the Mazak would cool during the soldering it makes it almost impossible to achieve a consistent and presentable finish.

Robert Francis also told me that a better finish could only have been achieved by having the piece move through the processes on its own with an operator following and watching the piece throughout to remove it at "exactly the right second" from various steps of the process, which would make the cost prohibitive (clearly this is not suited to a batch process).

The agreement is that they will consider carefully what they can do after inspecting the handle and either undertake more work or return straight to me.

They're also refunded me part of the cost and on the whole and I'm quite satisfied with their level of professionalism even if I had wished for a better finish.

So in the long term I'll continue to look for a new-old-stock handle (you never know!) or one in better "starting condition" than mine was and may also investigate 3-d printing as an alternative.

My "M_O_R_R_I_S" badge from the rear of the Traveller snapped during the polishing part of the process. The plater gave me a discount and said it I couldn't mount it satisfactorily they will plate another badge for free. Well, if I can find one. What I have found and bought (on ebay Australia) are two "M_O_R_R_I_S" badges from a Morris Major. They are very similar to my badge, but not identical. My friend thinks he can glue the original in pace, so if I don't need the Morris Major badges, I'll probably have them chromed and think about mounting one on each front wing.

Cheers!
Martin
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