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> Austin 3 litre Cyl. Head, Urgent answer needed
Fred Oldham
post 9 Jun 2015, 13:54
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As per the heading, I need a quick, but correct, answer to the question; "Will the cylinder head from a circa 1970 Austin 3 litre fit on my 1955 A90 block?"
I have a chance to buy said head, which is a 12-port design and thus superior to the old 'log' pattern. So guys, will it fit, or am I getting all excited for nothing?
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Penguin45
post 9 Jun 2015, 14:48
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Unlikely. 3 Litre "C" engine was virtually a total redesign of the original "C" engine.

P45.
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Danny
post 9 Jun 2015, 15:22
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QUOTE
"Will the cylinder head from a circa 1970 Austin 3 litre fit on my 1955 A90 block?"



Absolutely not!


Danny
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Fred Oldham
post 10 Jun 2015, 08:06
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Bugger! Really thought I was on to a winner there. Thanks for the replies gentlemen, even if they weren't the answer I was hoping for.
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Danny
post 10 Jun 2015, 08:30
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You might be able to sell it on to an MGC owner and finance your engine rebuild (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

Danny
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Fred Oldham
post 10 Jun 2015, 13:11
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I was waiting for the nod from you guys before buying it. So, now I won't !
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Llansadwrn
post 10 Jun 2015, 15:05
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As a matter of interest, here are pictures of the 3 litre head and block from the parts book:



Attached File  3_litre_head.JPG ( 139.92K ) Number of downloads: 0




Attached File  3_litre_block.JPG ( 153.32K ) Number of downloads: 0
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Fred Oldham
post 11 Jun 2015, 14:18
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It would be interesting to compare the head gaskets to see what holes are in different places. If any? I see the 3 litre engine has 7 main bearings, compared to the earier one's 4. Should be a very tough lump. Would the whole lot mate to my gearbox? I hate to be beaten by mere facts.
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Llansadwrn
post 11 Jun 2015, 14:26
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Go the whole hog: use the gearbox too! The 3 litres were supposed to be amazing handlers. I suppose the hydrolastic stuff would be a bit difficult to cobble on, but think what a car you'd have if you did! The 3 litre was a very underrated car. I wonder what happened to the Wolseley prototype(s)?

BMC (or were they British Leyland by then?) was going through one of their many low spots at the time. I was reading a comment by an enthusiast who had bought a 3 year old 3 litre way back in '71 or '72. The cars were always criticised for having a mediocre heating system, but he found that there was no cable connecting his controls to the heater! Everything except the cable was there though, and when he installed a cable the heating was excellent. His theory was that the cables were never installed on the cars by the factory.

Attached File  austin_3_litre_1.jpg ( 577.22K ) Number of downloads: 0
Attached File  austin_3_litre_2.jpg ( 457.53K ) Number of downloads: 0


Attached File  austin_3_litre_3.jpg ( 512.45K ) Number of downloads: 0
Attached File  austin_3_litre_4.jpg ( 524.67K ) Number of downloads: 0


Attached File  austin_3_litre_5.jpg ( 576.31K ) Number of downloads: 0


This post has been edited by Llansadwrn: 11 Jun 2015, 15:00
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Llansadwrn
post 11 Jun 2015, 14:47
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QUOTE (Fred Oldham @ 11 Jun 2015, 08:18 ) *
It would be interesting to compare the head gaskets to see what holes are in different places. If any? I see the 3 litre engine has 7 main bearings, compared to the earier one's 4. Should be a very tough lump. Would the whole lot mate to my gearbox? I hate to be beaten by mere facts.


Your wishing is my commanding. I believe this is correct. Sadly I had to resort to Google. Don't look too similar....... Six big 'oles?



Attached File  c_and_3l.JPG ( 145.15K ) Number of downloads: 1


This post has been edited by Llansadwrn: 11 Jun 2015, 14:50
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Fred Oldham
post 11 Jun 2015, 18:33
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Ok I give in.

This post has been edited by Fred Oldham: 11 Jun 2015, 18:37
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webmonster
post 9 Jul 2015, 01:22
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QUOTE (Fred Oldham @ 12 Jun 2015, 06:33 ) *
Ok I give in.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I'm sure I remember someone selling one on trademe.co.nz saying that he bought one to fit on a Healey 3000 and found it wouldn't fit at all. As well as the 'oles being different the whole head is shorter than 'our' C-series unit.

However, buying this 3L head and preparing it for sale to a MGC owner could be a useful exercise if you can buy it cheaply enough.
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Fred Oldham
post 13 Jul 2015, 13:31
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Nice idea Webmonster, but with all the present engine laid out in bits on my work bench and just about to taken for machining, I have all the amusement I can handle. I'm still waiting for a price on a standard head, so I can talk to the machine shop about 'de-logging'.
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webmonster
post 14 Jul 2015, 00:47
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QUOTE (Fred Oldham @ 14 Jul 2015, 01:31 ) *
I'm still waiting for a price on a standard head, so I can talk to the machine shop about 'de-logging'.

Is your current cylinder head cracked, or are you wanting to work on another head in case things go wrong?

After talking to my engine shop and seeing the sectioned bit of cylinder head I am confident that my less invasive 'short cylinder head studs' approach is feasible and keeps the inlet tract intact, so no need to fabricate new inlet manifolds. In fact you could bolt on your original Zenith!
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Fred Oldham
post 14 Jul 2015, 11:27
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Nothing wrong with my existing cyl. head, but Howard Dent has offered to sell me a good spare one that he has. I'm just waiting for him to confirm the price and then I can decide if this modification is a goer.
I will hopefully be able to go online at the machining company's premises and show the guys there what I want to do. It would be nice if they were interested enough to give me a special price for what is basically an experiment. Worth asking anyway. They may also be able to point me towards a possible solution to the new inlet manifolding required.

On the subject of your planned modification; are you thinking of some screw-in blanking plugs for the large holes in the 'log' top that will be drilled to get the new head bolts and socket through? Whilst the head is being worked on, would it be a good idea to drill / ream the length of log bore to clean out all the casting marks and roughness to maximise the smooth gas-flow? This combined with the 'no-bolt' intrusions should give you the best result. What do you reckon?
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webmonster
post 15 Jul 2015, 01:00
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QUOTE (Fred Oldham @ 14 Jul 2015, 23:27 ) *
On the subject of your planned modification; are you thinking of some screw-in blanking plugs for the large holes in the 'log' top that will be drilled to get the new head bolts and socket through? Whilst the head is being worked on, would it be a good idea to drill / ream the length of log bore to clean out all the casting marks and roughness to maximise the smooth gas-flow? This combined with the 'no-bolt' intrusions should give you the best result. What do you reckon?

Yes, screw in blanking plugs.
I like the idea of cleaning up the inside of the log bore and should not be difficult - it's not needing a high precision line boring operation, just a hone/polish.

Apparently the engine shop has done similar things to other cylinder heads. Ralph mentioned Holden engines, but I don't know much about them.
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Fred Oldham
post 15 Jul 2015, 18:07
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Are you saying that not just BMC used a cast-in manifold? Don't suppose they kept any pictures or drtails, just for interest?
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webmonster
post 16 Jul 2015, 00:22
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QUOTE (Fred Oldham @ 16 Jul 2015, 06:07 ) *
Are you saying that not just BMC used a cast-in manifold?

Apparently not!
More specifically for BMC it seems to be a passing fad of the Morris Engines Branch. Apparently the Wolseley Eight cylinder head for the 918cc engine had the same sort of cast in manifold.

QUOTE
Don't suppose they kept any pictures or drtails, just for interest?

If Ralph is remembering correctly about a Holden engine then I reckon we could find pics online - Holdens are popular here in NZ and Australia.
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setright
post 16 Jul 2015, 03:15
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Here's the C series head in Alloy -: Attached File  Alloy_head_for_C_series.jpg ( 96.26K ) Number of downloads: 0
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Danny
post 16 Jul 2015, 06:27
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I keep hearing about a Ford Falcon (Aussie) 6 cylinder with an integral inlet manifold but have never got round to pinpointing it.

Danny

Edit: A quick search leads me to the third generation 144 series in-line 6 from 1960-64. From Wikiwhotsit;

The 144 cu in (2.4 L) inline-six engine was first introduced in the 1960 Ford Falcon. The 144 c.i. was made from 1960 through 1964 and averaged 90 hp (67 kW) during the production run. While not known for being powerful or a stout engine, it proved to be economical and could get fairly good gas mileage for the time (up to 25-30mpg). This small six was the basis for all the Ford "Falcon" straight-six engines. The intake manifold on this series of engine was cast integrally with the cylinder head (this design was also used by Chevrolet with their third generation inline-six); as a result, they could not be easily modified for greater power. This engine had four main bearings and can be identified by the three core plugs on the side of the block.

This engine was used in:

1960 - 1964 Ford Falcon
1960 - 1964 Ford Ranchero
1960 - 1964 Mercury Comet
1961 - 1964 Ford E-Series



This post has been edited by Danny: 16 Jul 2015, 06:44
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