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> Phoebe rides again, then stops again
GodalmingYellow
post 23 Jun 2014, 21:50
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Well I finally got the elbows I needed for Phoebe's new SU fuel pump, connected it up, getting rid of the ghastly additions put in by previous owners, such as the pressure regulator, and various brackets to fit the incorrect type of fuel pump and incorrect earthing fuel pump.

Fitting the new SU fuel pump was a piece of cake, and within 3 seconds of fitting and pulling the starter knob, she kicked into life as if nothing had happened.

I also added a little 3-in-1 to the carb top section with the mini piston in, which I noticed was dry.

Brilliant.

Then not so brilliant.

I drove about 5 miles over to see my Mum and show Phoebe off to her and her neighbours. She drove beautifully, pulling much better even just for these small changes.

After cups of tea and chat, I said cheerio to Mum and with a hoard of neighbours admiring, I started Phoebe up, or rather I tried to. Absolutely nothing. Engine turned over but it was as if firing up was an alien concept. How embarrassing.

So I flipped the hood to find a small amount of smoke emanating from the dynamo. This lasted for a good 15 minutes and the battery charging light was on with the key not even in the ignition. When I turned the key, the battery charging light actually went out, even though the car wasn't firing up.
I was seriously worried the dynamo it was going to burst into flames.

I had to call out a recovery truck, and just before they arrived, Phoebe decided to start again. Although now the battery charging light was on permanently with the engine running (and properly off with the key removed). I also noted that the radiator was very hot, after having been standing cooling for half an hour..

The truck driver of Isis Recovery Company (I kid you not) turned out to be a big fan of the Morris Isis and was regularly moaning that Howard wouldn't sell him an Isis. I very nearly sold him Phoebe there and then.

He said the dynamo was indeed the problem, but that I might be able to get a repair kit.

Having got Phoebe back to her home in Ambrosden, I proceeded to dismantle the dynamo to see if I could identify the problem.

Brushes fine and loads of life left in them yet (insulation gone, but I replaced it with heat shrink insulation), commutator fine (checked each of the windings for a complete circuit and all fine), field windings looked fine and showed as a circuit with my meter, it all looked fine. I cleaned it all up and re-assembled.

I checked the wiring which was all fine back to the regulator. In fact it is new wiring anyway.

So, I followed the workshop manual instructions for testing output from the dynamo and could only get about 0.4 volts output, which suggested the field windings might be problematic according to the manual.

I took the dynamo apart again several times , checking everything, but nothing I could do could bring it back to life.

So now I need either a replacement dynamo, or a repair kit, unless you know different.....

Does anyone on here know where to get replacement Lucas dynamos or repair kits? I took a look on ebay, but difficult to tell if the replica dynamos would fit, and one I saw on there had an ouch price tag of almost £500.

If it helps, the model number is Lucas C45 PV5, which I believe means 45 amp output, positive earth, model 5.

All help appreciated as always.
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Penguin45
post 23 Jun 2014, 23:35
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HERE. Basically the same job, same parts supplier. They now have a website, HERE.

The dynamo may now be somewhat cooked, but the problem will be the voltage reulator. Replace/repair at the earliest opportunity.

P45.
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GodalmingYellow
post 24 Jun 2014, 00:26
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QUOTE (Penguin45 @ 24 Jun 2014, 00:35 ) *
HERE. Basically the same job, same parts supplier. They now have a website, HERE.

The dynamo may now be somewhat cooked, but the problem will be the voltage reulator. Replace/repair at the earliest opportunity.

P45.


Thanks Penguin.

Is the C40 kit suitable for the C45 dynamo?

Regulator was replaced not that long ago, albeit for an old stock part. I'm not sure how easy they are to test without a working dynamo. I ran the test of disconnecting the A and A1 terminals and connecting them together, then connecting a meter from D terminal to chassis earth, but voltage then should be no different to dynamo output test anyway.

I'm thinking along the lines of replacing the field windings only on the dynamo, as I am fairly convinced that that's what is broken. I reckon you are right though, a new regulator would be sensible as I've no idea if the replacement one had been messed about with anyway. Mileage done since replacement is less than 100 miles so it could easily have caused the damage.
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Danny
post 24 Jun 2014, 06:30
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Sounds like the cut-out points sticking together (in the regulator).

Danny
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webmonster
post 24 Jun 2014, 08:13
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Rats. Sorry to hear of Phoebe's naughty behaviour.
It would be a great idea to get the voltage regulator sorted. An auto-sparky could check it for you easily. Not sure if they would want the whole car to test 'in-situ'.
...or you could get a solid-state replacement for the voltage regulator. No more points to mess you around (IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I got mine converted in the USA - same housing, different gubbins. There is a bloke in the UK who can do it too.

At the same time I also changed my C45PV5 (22amps max) for a C45PV6 (25amps max). The PV6 needs you to remove the old connectors and install Lucar ones. Looks identical otherwise.
But 3 amps more! Phooar! (IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

C40 parts will almost certainly not fit properly. I got a PV6 kit via ebay.co.uk

3 in 1 oil for the dashpot might be too thin - SAE20 (or thereabouts) could be better next time you fill the piston.
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GodalmingYellow
post 24 Jun 2014, 16:33
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QUOTE (webmonster @ 24 Jun 2014, 09:13 ) *
Rats. Sorry to hear of Phoebe's naughty behaviour.
It would be a great idea to get the voltage regulator sorted. An auto-sparky could check it for you easily. Not sure if they would want the whole car to test 'in-situ'.
...or you could get a solid-state replacement for the voltage regulator. No more points to mess you around (IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I got mine converted in the USA - same housing, different gubbins. There is a bloke in the UK who can do it too.

At the same time I also changed my C45PV5 (22amps max) for a C45PV6 (25amps max). The PV6 needs you to remove the old connectors and install Lucar ones. Looks identical otherwise.
But 3 amps more! Phooar! (IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

C40 parts will almost certainly not fit properly. I got a PV6 kit via ebay.co.uk

3 in 1 oil for the dashpot might be too thin - SAE20 (or thereabouts) could be better next time you fill the piston.


Thanks.

Are Lucar connectors what I might call spade connectors?

The swap to the updated dynamo sounds sensible, as parts are more easily available. I read about this as an option elsewhere, and the advice was that the PV6 was just an updated PV5 and better for it.

I wonder if the PV6 repair kit could be used in the PV5.

Thanks also re the carb oil. 3-in-1 was recommended to me for the job by a classic car mechanic believe it or not! Even with the 3-in-1 she ran so much better than with the dry piston. All the fluttering when trying to get the power down just vanished immediately. Amazing how things work better when they are maintained how they are supposed to be!!

Going back to an earlier thread re the thermostat, I'm wondering if mine is seized, as when I re-filled the rad and block to introduce new clean water and anti-freeze, it didn't take anywhere near as much fluid as the manual suggested (and yes I had emptied both the rad and block). the radiator level hasn't changed since I re-filled it, but it does get very hot - too hot to touch the rad. The fan works fine and is probably doing just enough. Can thermostat be checked in a bowl of hot water?

This post has been edited by GodalmingYellow: 24 Jun 2014, 19:21
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webmonster
post 25 Jun 2014, 08:40
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QUOTE (GodalmingYellow @ 25 Jun 2014, 04:33 ) *
Are Lucar connectors what I might call spade connectors?

The swap to the updated dynamo sounds sensible, as parts are more easily available. I read about this as an option elsewhere, and the advice was that the PV6 was just an updated PV5 and better for it.

I wonder if the PV6 repair kit could be used in the PV5.

Lucars are very similar to spade connectors. I got mine thrown in with the PV6 overhaul kit.
PV6 looks exactly the same as a PV5, except for the Lucar connectors on the back.
I'm pretty sure the PV6 brushes are different to the PV5 ones. Everything else might be the same (bearings etc).
QUOTE
Thanks also re the carb oil. 3-in-1 was recommended to me for the job by a classic car mechanic believe it or not! Even with the 3-in-1 she ran so much better than with the dry piston. All the fluttering when trying to get the power down just vanished immediately. Amazing how things work better when they are maintained how they are supposed to be!!

If it is working nicely with 3-in-1 you might as well leave it be for now! Running with no damper oil would give an inferior motoring experience (IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Unless the carb is leaking petrol anywhere or the shaft is floppy, the only other useful maintenance is checking the piston and dashpot walls are clean.
QUOTE
Going back to an earlier thread re the thermostat, I'm wondering if mine is seized, as when I re-filled the rad and block to introduce new clean water and anti-freeze, it didn't take anywhere near as much fluid as the manual suggested (and yes I had emptied both the rad and block). the radiator level hasn't changed since I re-filled it, but it does get very hot - too hot to touch the rad. The fan works fine and is probably doing just enough. Can thermostat be checked in a bowl of hot water?

If the radiator is getting hot then water must be getting to it, however that does not mean the cooling system is working properly!

If you turn the heater on full, do you get lots of hot air (once engine is warmed up)? Mine gets really toasty.

Checking the thermostat is a good idea. Easy to do, and the parts are cheap - a paper gasket and a 83 degree centigrade thermostat. When the thermostat is out you can reverse flush the block and/or radiator. This works better if you drive with a rad/block flusher beforehand.

If there is a lot of grot in the waterways then you can't fit as much water in. Also possible that your radiator has been rebuilt with a smaller matrix (like mine) (IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

When I checked my thermostat a year or two ago I found it could not completely close. I didn't test it - I just replaced it.
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GodalmingYellow
post 25 Jun 2014, 09:01
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QUOTE (webmonster @ 25 Jun 2014, 09:40 ) *
Lucars are very similar to spade connectors. I got mine thrown in with the PV6 overhaul kit.
PV6 looks exactly the same as a PV5, except for the Lucar connectors on the back.
I'm pretty sure the PV6 brushes are different to the PV5 ones. Everything else might be the same (bearings etc).

If it is working nicely with 3-in-1 you might as well leave it be for now! Running with no damper oil would give an inferior motoring experience (IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Unless the carb is leaking petrol anywhere or the shaft is floppy, the only other useful maintenance is checking the piston and dashpot walls are clean.

If the radiator is getting hot then water must be getting to it, however that does not mean the cooling system is working properly!

If you turn the heater on full, do you get lots of hot air (once engine is warmed up)? Mine gets really toasty.

Checking the thermostat is a good idea. Easy to do, and the parts are cheap - a paper gasket and a 83 degree centigrade thermostat. When the thermostat is out you can reverse flush the block and/or radiator. This works better if you drive with a rad/block flusher beforehand.

If there is a lot of grot in the waterways then you can't fit as much water in. Also possible that your radiator has been rebuilt with a smaller matrix (like mine) (IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

When I checked my thermostat a year or two ago I found it could not completely close. I didn't test it - I just replaced it.



Thanks or the advice once again.

I recently had to clean and unseize the heater valve and so I flushed and reverse flushed the rad and block and heater matrix with a hose at the same time. The muck that came out was incredible and it took a long time to get anything like vaguely clear water coming out. Heater works fine now.

Silly question of mine re the rad getting hot (IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) .

I see AH Spares supply reconditioned C45 PV5 dynamos for not much more than a repair kit.

This post has been edited by GodalmingYellow: 25 Jun 2014, 16:53
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webmonster
post 26 Jun 2014, 09:05
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QUOTE
I see AH Spares supply reconditioned C45 PV5 dynamos for not much more than a repair kit.

I've used AH Spares quite a few times and I think they are a good supplier.
Are they PV5 or PV6? Have you asked them? I see they are exchange only.

I imagine they do exchange C42 dynamos too (30amps).

Whichever one you choose you would need the control box to be adjusted to suit.

Once you've got the dynamo/control box sorted out, checked and cleaned/replaced the bullet connectors and are satisfied that the wiring is not falling to pieces (it is c.60 years old if original!) then you should have a reliable electrical system. There is not much to go wrong, really!

And there are a few Earth points to check too.

So, what do you make of the RH floor change?
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GodalmingYellow
post 26 Jun 2014, 23:51
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QUOTE (webmonster @ 26 Jun 2014, 10:05 ) *
I've used AH Spares quite a few times and I think they are a good supplier.
Are they PV5 or PV6? Have you asked them? I see they are exchange only.

I imagine they do exchange C42 dynamos too (30amps).

Whichever one you choose you would need the control box to be adjusted to suit.

Once you've got the dynamo/control box sorted out, checked and cleaned/replaced the bullet connectors and are satisfied that the wiring is not falling to pieces (it is c.60 years old if original!) then you should have a reliable electrical system. There is not much to go wrong, really!

And there are a few Earth points to check too.

So, what do you make of the RH floor change?


I used AH for a replacement water pump and they were good then.

I haven't confirmed PV5 or PV6 yet, but will do so, but I suspect it will be PV5 simply because they are very strict in supplying the correct parts for Healeys and the quoted part is for the correct Healeys using the same parts as the Isis at the point of OEM.

Same applies to the control box, I'll get the one that is supplied for the same Healeys so I know it will be the right match.

My wiring is brand new. I got a replica braided wiring loom from Autosparks. I've also got a new battery, so I'll hopefully end up with decent electrics. Knowing my luck with Phoebe at the moment, the coil will be next to go! I've checked the distributor cap and that seems to be fine, but I do want a new set of HT leads as the plug caps are pretty rubbish.

I love the rh change. I've driven European cars plenty of times anyway so it isn't a completely alien concept. Only slight issue with that is the rubber gaiter could do with being replaced and I tend to knock my knuckles on the door occasionally.
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webmonster
post 27 Jun 2014, 07:49
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QUOTE (GodalmingYellow @ 27 Jun 2014, 11:51 ) *
I haven't confirmed PV5 or PV6 yet, but will do so, but I suspect it will be PV5 simply because they are very strict in supplying the correct parts for Healeys and the quoted part is for the correct Healeys using the same parts as the Isis at the point of OEM.

Same applies to the control box, I'll get the one that is supplied for the same Healeys so I know it will be the right match.

The Wolseley 6/99 came with a PV6, so I imagine that some Healeys would have too.
If they can supply a PV6 then I'd double check with them that the control box can handle 25amps. I've heard the newer reproduction ones are a bit rough, and C40 dynamos do 22amps, so that might be the most the control box can handle. I really don't know though.
QUOTE
Knowing my luck with Phoebe at the moment, the coil will be next to go! I've checked the distributor cap and that seems to be fine, but I do want a new set of HT leads as the plug caps are pretty rubbish.

Two of my cars still have their original coils, so you are probably OK. As for a new set of HT leads... I got mine from... AH Spares (IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
QUOTE
I love the rh change. I've driven European cars plenty of times anyway so it isn't a completely alien concept. Only slight issue with that is the rubber gaiter could do with being replaced and I tend to knock my knuckles on the door occasionally.

My gearlever used to get too close to the door when I first got my Isis. It was also sloppy enough to need rebushing/brazing etc. here and there.
You can also adjust the lever to be closer to the seat by fiddling with the linkages underneath the lever.
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GodalmingYellow
post 29 Jun 2014, 19:33
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QUOTE (webmonster @ 27 Jun 2014, 08:49 ) *
The Wolseley 6/99 came with a PV6, so I imagine that some Healeys would have too.
If they can supply a PV6 then I'd double check with them that the control box can handle 25amps. I've heard the newer reproduction ones are a bit rough, and C40 dynamos do 22amps, so that might be the most the control box can handle. I really don't know though.

Two of my cars still have their original coils, so you are probably OK. As for a new set of HT leads... I got mine from... AH Spares (IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

My gearlever used to get too close to the door when I first got my Isis. It was also sloppy enough to need rebushing/brazing etc. here and there.
You can also adjust the lever to be closer to the seat by fiddling with the linkages underneath the lever.


Thx Monster
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GodalmingYellow
post 30 Jun 2014, 23:51
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Back to square one.

Neither of the Austin Healey spares shops have the dynamos in stock, and both say that they rarely see them anymore.

I am waiting for a reply from another supplier who may hold a C45 PV5, but if that fails, my options are limited to trying to find someone who may be able to refurbish my existing dynamo, which I understand costs almost £400, or change the dynamo for another dynamo or an alternator, neither of which are particularly appealing options.
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Howard Dent
post 1 Jul 2014, 06:35
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QUOTE (GodalmingYellow @ 1 Jul 2014, 00:51 ) *
Back to square one.

Neither of the Austin Healey spares shops have the dynamos in stock, and both say that they rarely see them anymore.

I am waiting for a reply from another supplier who may hold a C45 PV5, but if that fails, my options are limited to trying to find someone who may be able to refurbish my existing dynamo, which I understand costs almost £400, or change the dynamo for another dynamo or an alternator, neither of which are particularly appealing options.


You'd better come and get an original one then - I have several (IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/coffee.gif)

It's tough at the top...
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post 1 Jul 2014, 08:52
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QUOTE (GodalmingYellow @ 1 Jul 2014, 11:51 ) *
I am waiting for a reply from another supplier who may hold a C45 PV5, but if that fails, my options are limited to trying to find someone who may be able to refurbish my existing dynamo, which I understand costs almost £400, or change the dynamo for another dynamo or an alternator, neither of which are particularly appealing options.

ukp400 to overhaul a dynamo!
!!!!
If someone has quoted you this then I imagine it is a 'I'm not really interested' fee.
On the other hand, if some 'magic smoke' came out of your dynamo it may well be wise to start with another one to rebuild.

C45PV6 was used by AH3000, Jags, Wolseley 6/99 and probably Rovers and Humbers and probably then some.
I wouldn't regard them as rare.
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post 1 Jul 2014, 11:15
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If you can get your hands on a usable carcass, I'd be able to rebuild it for you, GY.

P45.
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post 2 Jul 2014, 08:11
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Landrovers also used PV5 and PV6's.
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GodalmingYellow
post 7 Jul 2014, 23:04
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I've found a company https://www.maes-group.co.uk/ that will refurbish my original one for a maximum of £125 and probably less, which seems a fair deal. They seemed to know what they were talking about when I spoke to them and knew the differences between PV5 and PV6. I'll give them a go and take it from there.

This post has been edited by GodalmingYellow: 7 Jul 2014, 23:05
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GodalmingYellow
post 7 Jul 2014, 23:06
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QUOTE (webmonster @ 2 Jul 2014, 09:11 ) *
Landrovers also used PV5 and PV6's.


Yes, I found that on research too. It is the old series 2s that used them. They are almost as rare as the Isis now.

Funnily enough, when I bought my 110 TD5 Defender last year, I was intent on getting a series 2 (or more likely a series 2a). My wife thinks I go looking for trouble!!

This post has been edited by GodalmingYellow: 7 Jul 2014, 23:08
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post 8 Jul 2014, 08:03
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QUOTE (GodalmingYellow @ 8 Jul 2014, 11:04 ) *
I've found a company https://www.maes-group.co.uk/ that will refurbish my original one for a maximum of £125 and probably less, which seems a fair deal. They seemed to know what they were talking about when I spoke to them and knew the differences between PV5 and PV6. I'll give them a go and take it from there.

It may work out economically better to overhaul one from Howard that hasn't let any smoke out.

Lucas Replacement Smoke is very tricky to come by these days. Expensive stuff (IMG:http://www.wolseleyforum.com/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

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